If you’ve lived in Oakland long, you’ve probably seen them outside a dive bar or gallery, the skinny-jeaned hipsters with long bangs and eyeliner smoking in packs, possibly clutching cans of Pabst. For those who don’t know better, this manifestation of “indie,” or independent, culture may be as far as the idea goes.

But the roots and practice of the movement reach much deeper, said several local business owners and artists in a panel discussion Wednesday at Moe’s Books on Telegraph Avenue. The approach, they said, strengthens community collaboration, enriches culture by providing an alternative to the mainstream and provides an honest outlet for the creative projects people hold most dear.

Oakland author Kaya Oakes, writer of Slanted and Enchanted: The Evolution of Indie Culture, led the discussion. She co-founded Kitchen Sink magazine (“for people who think too much”) to provide an “original take on whatever makes us think." The magazine folded in 2006, but many of the relationships formed during its creation continue to influence and support the Oakland indie arts scene. Since Oakes’ book came out earlier this year, she’s traveled up and down the West Coast for readings. Wednesday night’s event was the last stop.

Oakes spoke at the Berkeley book shop with three women who are central to local music, arts and publishing: Nicole Neditch of Objet D'Art design agency, Noella Teele of Issues newsstand and culture shop, both in Oakland, and Liz Lisle of Watchword Press in Berkeley.

Rather than reading from her book, Oakes introduced the event with a strong dose of irony, sharing instructions from the wikiHow entry on “How to Be Indie (for Girls).”

“Indie (short for independent) girls are easily admirable. Their eclectic fashion style, their unique music preferences, and their spunky and ‘I-don’t-give-a-hoot-about-what-others-think-of-me’ attitude are great traits that we don’t seem to have enough of in this world filled with conformers. But, being indie is easier said than done. With this guide, you can go from an expected normal/prep to a totally different-in-a-good-way girl in no time!”

The description met with laughter and some dismay from the audience, as Oakes intended. (Particularly as she read, “It's hard to be considered indie without an awesome assortment of eclectic jewelry! Places like Target sell great jewelry that easily completes any indie girl wardrobe.”)

Oakes asked the panelists questions about the role of community for independent businesses, how they managed to sustain their efforts financially and how living in the Bay Area has influenced their projects.

“Community is probably one of the most important things that keeps our business going,” said Teele, of Issues newsstand. The shop features 3,000 magazines, books, and zines and has hosted art shows and other community events. “We’ve relied on people in the neighborhood. It’s important for us that it’s a place where people in the community feel welcome.”

The other women echoed these sentiments, crediting local residents, fellow artists and other small businesses with helping bolster and maintain their enterprises.

“All of the businesses I’ve worked with have relied on a large outreach to our community,” said Neditch of Objet D’Art. Neditch of Richmond was a co-owner of Mama Buzz Cafe and Gallery, along with Jen Loy, who also attended the Moe’s event. They sold the business two years ago. Neditch helped create the Oakland Art Murmur, a monthly art walk, and now runs a design firm. She said she is working with the East Bay Express on Oaklandgrown.org, an online project to promote local businesses.

The women said the Bay Area plays a central role in their efforts. The support from local residents, who place a premium on local commerce and have a diverse set of interests, makes the high cost of living manageable.

“People here are looking for something that’s unique,” said Lisle, managing editor of the Watchword Press. “That’s why people live here rather than living somewhere cheap and accessible. And we support each other's work because we all made that decision to live here.” 

Teele, who owns Issues with partner Joe Colley, said she doubts the business could succeed in a community lacking the eclectic tastes Bay Area residents exhibit.

All four women acknowledged the challenge of staying solvent. Oakes said the reality of this kind of work, for many independents, is that they must have a day job to support creative efforts.

Lisle makes her living as the managing director for the Shotgun Players, based at Ashby Stage in Berkeley. Her other passion, Watchword Press, raises money issue by issue.

“It’s all volunteer run,” she said. “We cobble money together to print starting from zero. We have events, sell beer and print. Then we go through the process again the next time we’re ready to publish. It’s more about community than having a sustainable business at this point.”

Neditch said she is trying a different model with another project, the Bay Area Visual Arts Network, which aims to find outlets for local artists. In one recent venture, the group secured 16 floors for local artwork in a building in Jack London Square. The manager had initially planned to purchase images printed on canvas then shellacked, to give the appearance of original works, from a Las Vegas gallery.

“We were able to convince them they could create more of a destination if they tapped into the local market of artists and purchased local pieces,” she said. “We came together with the idea for the network saying, we're all used to being broke and not having enough money to sustain our projects. We went into this thinking, let’s make it our mission to create opportunities for these artists.”

Teele said she and Colley put all of their savings into Issues.

“It’s really scary. You just have to take it day by day and hope that you’re having a lot of sincerity in what you’re doing. You know that it has value, and that’s the best way to put something out into the world. We just try to make it true to what we want it to be and hopefully people will come along.”

Asked by Oakes whether “indie” is dead, the answer was a resounding “no,” though the term’s meaning has morphed as it’s become more widespread.

“The more mainstream term can be used for the color of your hair or the makeup you wear,” said Neditch. “But it also means how you spend your money, what businesses you support. And there’s a movement across the country to shop local rather than in the big box stores. So I think there’s reason to be hopeful.”

Audience member Stefanie Kalem, 37, of Oakland said she came to the event because she’s friends with the panelists. But indie culture, she said, is an issue that matters deeply to her. 

"In the arts and culture, there isn't much that's interesting once somebody pays a lot of money for it to happen," said Kale, a non-profit arts marketer. "Where I work, it's interesting because we're scrappy. We have to fight for our dollars. When you don't have to sweat about how you're going to get a project done, that affects the outcome."

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Indie is…

Noella Teele, Issues: “When you’re doing something indie-minded of indie spirit, it’s something you feel really true about. It’s what you feel sincere about and something that you do well. I often think of the punk ethos, that if you’re going to do something, do it right. Do it all the way.”

Liz Lisle, Watchword Press: “It’s when you’re not looking for recognition from an external source. You’re just doing it because you love it. You’re working with your friend and that’s the motivation that keeps it going.”

Nicole Neditch, Objet d’Art: “It’s doing something from the heart and taking it all the way. The recognition comes from the people that you’re working with. You’re not going with the traditional box stores. You’re shopping from people who are also doing it from the heart, and making a decision to work with those kinds of people.”

Kaya Oakes, Slanted and Enchanted: The Evolution of Indie Culture (excerpt): “If we understand culture to mean something more than a style of music, a visual aesthetic, or a literary mode and try to define it from its Latin root, cultura—‘to  cultivate’— then we can see how indie artists have traditionally worked together to cultivate many things: credibility, freedom, the ability to promote their own work and to control how it’s promoted,  self-reliance,  open-mindedness, and the freedom to take creative risks.”