"While a silent majority of Oakalnders (sic) await the outcome of tomorrow night’s meeting while watching from home due to fear of retaliation, many more are sure to pack the Council chambers in opposition of such measures."

hmmm... fear of retaliation? or fear-mongering? has any citizen speaking at a City Council meeting ever suffered retaliation from someone holding an opposing view? or is this purely assumptive speculation on Nacho's part?

while it's easier to make a case for gang injunctions in West and East Oakland than the places they are currently enforced--NSO and Fruitvale are technically not "hotspots"--it seems like an end-around on the council's decision last May to wait for statistical data to determine the effectiveness of costly gang injunction efforts, to try to revisit this now, after all the media scrutiny following the death of Carlos Nava--whose tragic death was pimped incessantly by TV crews and MSM outlets, and now, de la Fuente and Reid.

Neva's family, after all, came out against gang injunctions.

now, it's time for fact-checking.

De La Fuente says: "Crime stats show that the worst hour for youth under the age of 18 to victims of violent crime is the midnight hour"

But according to an OUSD report on Youth homicides released in 2011 and covering a 10-year period, by far the deadliest time of day for youth victims was 8pm, not midnight.

Furthermore, de la Fuente is off by about 1 million on the annual total spent on Violence Prevention through measure Y, which was around 8m last year, and $22m between 2006-2008 (avg $6.6m). so he's clearly overstating the amount spent on social programs.

he also doesn't mention the cost of gang injunctions, which has been estimated at $1m for the two injunctions currently in place--or that programs like Youth Together and Leadership Excellence, which both have excellent track records, had their  meagre funding cut.

In my opinion, De la Fuente should be able to make his case and tell the truth at the same time.

pass on post

monica, you should be more concerned about de la fuente's honesty, to be truthful. basing politics around fear-mongering has led to some terrible policies on both a local and national level. if i'm convinced the bogeyman is real, does that make it so?

all i'm saying is, stats can be interpreted any number of ways. typically, politicians do not look at data which contradicts the point they want to make. they use weasel words which appear to make a stronger argument for their policies than may actually be the case, were other data included in the analysis.

in any case, overstating the cost of youth programs by almost as much as 1/3rd is a major oversight, especially since many of those programs suffered cuts in FY 2010. were $9m actually spent on re-entry, diversion, prevention, and job training programs, we might be able to achieve greater efficacy in crime reduction. instead, we spent that $1m on gang injunctions, which thusfar, have produced no measurable reduction in violent crime.

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"We have spent millions on Measure Y and Kids First yet black boys are still dropping out of school, i.e. produced no measurable improvement in outcomes."

monica, please cite your sources/relevant stats if you want to try to back this point up.

the intel i have says this is just not true. also, besides the fact that the majority of Measure Y funds are directed to police and fire services, Measure Y is technically a violence prevention program and is not solely designed to focus on retention/graduation/enrollment rates. to imply such is misleading. an overly simplistic reading of a highly complex and nuanaced issue can fail to grasp necessary context while omitting critical info needed to make any credible conclusion.

oh, and i like the Public Enemy quote, but i'm not the one watching Channel Zero.

Useless demonizing and no actual solutions-Oakland, aren't we tired of this political charade? Let's go to the October 15th summit and acutally talk about things that might make a difference for all our residents. We need solutions that are cost-effective, some short range, some long range, and that respect all aspects of our community. These fail on all points!

Remember, too, that you get one minute to some council members' looong-winded non answers. Let's discuss, not demagogue.

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we do not measure outcomes and students continue to drop-out of schools at alarmingly high rates.

yes, the drop-out rate is a cause of concern. but it's simply not true to say that outcomes aren't measured. do you really think that the people running these programs don't care?

I believe the curfews would help significantly. If parents are held responsible for their children, they will take more responsibility.  An eleven year old has no business being outside alone on a school day.

It is not City Hall's job to babysit children.  It is the parents' responsibility and it is time they did so.

I watched the City Council Meeting on television.  The youth were unruly and obviously needed more adult supervision.  They needed to know that there were boundaries they had to conform to--whether or not they agreed to them.

The City Council was very weak.  Punting off the decision was pitiful.  The City Council should have been adults.  

blue lilly,

You don't spend a lot of time watching council meetings, do you? This was par for the course in so many ways.

Monica,

I generally watch the meetings.  I agree that theatrics are par for the course, but this was worst then most.  I agree that the City Council members are spineless.  However, this meeting went beyond theatrics.  It was sad.  So many deeper cultural issues were revealed.

Eric,

I am sick of you telling people and me specifically to cite sources. I am not a journalist. If you want to cite a source be my guest. If you have doubts about OUSD graduation and dropout rates and educational attainment read a paper, ask Tony, look at the stats produced by OUSD, the state and the county. No one is trying to hide this from you but I do not spend my days documenting each and every source I use especially since most of it comes from years of working with students and being familiar with the stats. There is no halfway intelligent person in Oakland who is going to tell you that black boys are learning and graduating at the rates they should be. 

Score one for you, Monica. My personal view is we need better measurements to track results, impact, connections. And that our drop out rate is scary for too many.

But why test the obvious?

A researcher can always create a study to prove whatever he wants to prove.  

Also, waiting for another study is just another way of procrastinating. Look how Desley Brooks and some of the other council members use "we need more studies" (or words to that effect) as a way to evade making tough decisions.

Monica, i just spent the last two weeks crunching these very numbers, as Susan is no doubt aware of. The fact is that most people tend to think that overnight solutions are possible for complicated problems which are the result of decades of neglect. i dont want to say too much here, but there's a much larger context than what you're suggesting. Measure Y funds non-profit orgs. it has no direct investment in OUSD. furthermore, it's specifically designed as a violence prevention catch-all, but only 40% of its funding goes toward those programs. and, non-profits and school districts have different cultures. if we had better public education and less crime in economically-depressed areas, maybe we wouldnt need alternative education programs to correct the sins, so to speak, of public schools and the failure to invest in inner-city infrastructure. there is a correlation between the crime rate, the unemployment rate, and school enrollment rates, which are all disproportionate, in terms of affecting African American males. at a certain point, if you really want to solve this, you've got to address the elephant in the room, which is structural racism on an institutional and environmental level. and we do really want to solve this, dont we?

I guess it is good I am not most people. But I for one want to see the study you conducted to determine that most people think that overnight solutions are possible for complicated problems. In particular, I would like to see the study you conducted to detemine that supports the thesis that most area resident's think Oakland's complicated problems can be solved overnight.

You inferred a direct connect between MY and OUSD; I implied nothing. Taken as a whole, all the programs to address the lives of youth have added up to bupkiss.

The math here is not complicated. Oakland's violence prevention programs are not working and the educational systems are failing. Agree, we don't need alternative education programs. We need parents who are parents. When you have parents not doing their job you have children who do not reach their full potential. You need to spank the butts of these boys.  

At some point your people need to be held accountable. You can blame  structural and institutional racism all you want but we need to be honest some people find it easier to blame others for their lack of progress. If you want to solve this problem two words... 

monica,i'm puzzled by your last response. are you saying you now realize an overnight fix isn't possible? or not? and, i don't know how i can make it any clearer that Measure Y-funded programs and OUSD are two entirely different things. Saying that programs have "amounted to bupkiss" without citing any stats, data, research or other evidence to back that up doesn't really make a strong case IMO, especially when there is evidence indicating otherwise. Also, we absolutely need alternative education programs, at least as long as public schools continue to be part of the problem. Without those programs, and the measurable outcomes they have produced, there would be no model to replicate within a school district.

I kind of feel like I'm talking over your head here. If it were just a case of holding parents accountable, that would be one thing. But, there's plenty of blame to go around. Failure to address structural and institutional racism will not result in progress, i can't emphasize that enough. Finally, it's not "my" people, it's OUR people. It's in all our best interest to increase graduation rates, lower truancy and recidivism, and reduce violence. The sooner we accept this is the sooner we solve this.

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sorry, monica, but no. i made it clear repeatedly that measure Y does not provide any direct funding to OUSD. if you read something differently, that has nothing to do with me -- or the facts. as for playing the blame game, you blame parents and then seek to defer any responsibility for people you don't consider yours. that's pathological. it's either all of us or none of us. who uses structural racism to stay in power? not restorative justice programs, i can tell you that. you have it exactly backwards. look at this from the other side of the mirror and perhaps you might get it right.

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you know, monica, there is really no reason to call me names. kind of immature on your part, don't you think? you don't have to agree with me, but it's hard to follow your logic, if it can be called that. if you want to have a civil discussion and/or be taken seriously, you might want to avoid knee-jerk reactionism. just sayin'. have a nice day. i know i will. :)

I stopped having serious discussions with you a long time ago.  I don't recall when I stopped taking you seriously. It was either when you started addressing me as "monica" (Are you allergic to capital letters?) or when I realized you were spinning comments to something people never wrote or when you started talking down to people and acting like God.  You only see one side. I bet you get a boner every time you tell someone they are wrong. 

For my own amusement, I've found it more fun to include lines from songs, tv, books, and movies because I can. If only you knew the content of the  comments I deleted.

You do not acknowledge the merits of those who disagree with you. I readily admit there are issues which need to be addressed. I disagree with most of your solutions. They have been tried and they don't work.

And that is all I have to say about that.

Lol. monica, you are truly unique. i dont know why you feel compelled to follow me like a moth to a flame, but at least you are consistent. i've repeatedly asked you to explain why the solutions i have mentioned "don't work" as you say, but it seems no elaboration is forthcoming, at least not one which is fact-based--only insults and somewhat bizarre (and inappropriate) comments. so, not much to add at this point which hasn't already been said.

Are you sure it is not you who is following me? I am almost certain it is you who is following me. If you are a journalist then report but don't try to be part of the discussion. I like my journalist like I like my judges objective and unbiased.

I just noticed you thought I thought that an overnight solution was possible. I am not sure how you ever reached that conclusion. I can only assume you were one of those children left behind and failed basic reading comprehesion. For I certainly never had such a thought.   

actually, monica, not only did i post on this thread first, but i never specifically mentioned you in this comment: "most people tend to think that overnight solutions are possible for complicated problems." you indicated you were not "most people," so it seems you are suggesting that you--gasp!--agree with me that overnight solutions aren't, in fact, possible. also, throughout this thread i have tried to have an objective, fact-based discussion. every point i have made is the result of a conclusion determined by studying facts objectively. there is a difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed one. but LOL on the objective judge thing. you do realize that a judge formed an RJ task force, right? she's actually next on my list of people to interview.

"monica,i'm puzzled by your last response. are you saying you now realize an overnight fix isn't possible? or not?"

At some point, you thought I was most people. And I am still waiting for the evidence to support this bogus claim that most people think that an overnight fix is possible. I do know one thing that could benefit from an overnight fix.